In June of 2020, with a pandemic raging, Robbie Robertson took a while to look again at his profession with the Band, from writing their biggest hits to their work with Bob Dylan. The launch of his documentary Once Were Brothers had him a reflective temper, able to share new particulars in regards to the music he made with Band-mates Rick Danko, RIchard Manuel, Garth Hudson, and Levon Helm. In the wake of Robertson’s loss of life at age 80 this week, right here’s a full textual content model of that interview, printed right here for the primary time. You can even hear a brand new edit of the interview on the most recent episode of our podcast, Rolling Stone Music Now. (To hear the entire podcast, go right here to the podcast supplier of your selection, pay attention on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or simply press play beneath.)
You can take a look at the story of the Band as a triumph. You made unbelievable albums that can stay without end. It may be seen as a tragedy in some methods, since you had been by no means capable of come collectively once more after The Last Waltz. And then there’s all of the resentment and a few tragic deaths and later years for a few of the guys. So which approach do you see it?
It’s so unhappy that on this brotherhood, three of the fellows are not with us. But after The Last Waltz, everyone had a sure intention. We had issues we needed to find on our personal. We had been like, “OK, let’s all do our thing, and then we’re gonna come back together. We’re gonna get in a huddle and we’re gonna make music as good as we ever have.” And that felt nice, and it stored us collectively in our soul in that approach.
And as time handed, at one level it simply felt like everyone forgot to come back again. Everybody went on to do different issues. And then, there was most likely no approach of truly discovering our approach again. The after-story that Rick, Richard, Garth, and myself had — there was no resentment ever. We had the best brotherhood, and we had been thrilled about that. And after they determined some years later that they needed to go and play some gigs collectively, it’s of their blood. I utterly understood that.
And they known as me they usually mentioned, “Do you wanna join us in this?” And I mentioned, “No. What I am interested in is the creative process, and if we were gonna make some new music, I’m first in line for wanting to do that. But I don’t want to go back out on the road.” Then they mentioned, “Is it OK that we use the name ‘the Band’?” I mentioned, “Of course it is. I don’t wanna get in the way of somebody doing their thing and making a living or whatever.” So they did, and that’s my aspect of the story.
In the ebook Testimony that this documentary was very a lot impressed by, that’s actually my imaginative and prescient and my approach of remembering this and it. From my finish of it, there may be completely no resentment, no nothing, besides an appreciation of the superb time that we had collectively.
Now, all these complaints that Levon made in his ebook and in interviews are largely primarily based round his feeling that he ought to have gotten extra songwriting credit for the preparations of songs. Sometimes he would truly say he wrote the songs and typically not, in several instances. But total, it seems like he felt that he deserved songwriting credit for preparations. Was that ever introduced up within the second versus years later?
Never. It was by no means, ever talked about. Everybody knew how onerous I labored on this, and it was approach above and past the decision of responsibility or what anyone else was doing, however I felt that was my job. That was what I used to be actually capable of convey to this factor. And that’s the best way it’s. Some individuals write songs and a few individuals don’t. Like, Ringo Starr didn’t write [many] songs. Charlie Watts didn’t write songs, and I can assure you that these guys by no means shared publishing with these guys, which I did.
So, I used to be very acutely aware of being beneficiant and inclusive, and I gave Levon writing credit on issues the place he was simply there once I was writing it. Because I cared a lot in regards to the brotherhood. I cared a lot about everyone’s involvement, and I used to be actually making an attempt to encourage him or the opposite guys to put in writing as a lot as potential. But within the very starting, I used to be the one one which wrote songs, and in the long run, I used to be the one one which wrote songs. I can’t repair that. I can’t change that.
And I understood that Levon was having a tricky time in a while, and that’s why I by no means mentioned a factor. He was having a wrestle, and he at all times was actually good at discovering another person responsible for what was taking place. He had gone down the entire listing of everyone, and I used to be the one one left. And so, I wasn’t stunned it doesn’t matter what he mentioned or what he may’ve thought from his perspective, however he noticed it from one angle. And I wrote the ebook and I noticed it from my angle.
He says he labored with you on “The Night They Drove Dixie Down,” whereas in your ebook you say that he drove you to the library and that was principally it.
Yes, he did. And he advised me to not point out Abraham Lincoln within the track. That was it.
Levon’s voice clearly matches that track so spectacularly, as is the case for different songs sung by the varied different members. To what extent had been you had been writing for a specific bandmate? Or nearly casting the track?
That’s how I noticed it, nearly in a way of a theatrical group the place you do totally different tales, you do totally different motion pictures. It’s like John Ford and Ingmar Bergman used the identical individuals in numerous their motion pictures. In this one, this man performed the physician, and that one, this man performed the priest. That’s what I did. I wrote these songs particularly for these guys to sing. Levon was my closest brother, and so I used to be making an attempt so onerous. I knew his instrument. I knew his talents and I used to be making an attempt to put in writing songs that had been good for him to sing. And a few instances I would’ve nailed that.
The form of Biblical, magisterial, non-contemporary language that you just utilized in many of those songs, the idiom that you just had been writing in, the place did that come from?
I similar to nice storytelling. I believe numerous the biblical tales are fairly terrific. And typically you simply go in a sure route and it offers it a stronger feeling. Whenever I might write a track that sort of pulled from that place, that biblical place, like “Daniel and the Sacred Harp,” it simply felt good. And I believe that the Bible is a few of the finest tales ever advised. Really fairly a bestseller. I couldn’t assist at some instances however attain in there and pull from that inspiration.
You’d be with Bob Dylan at Big Pink, and also you’d see him typing lyrics on the typewriter. Lots of people in that place would say, “Bob Dylan’s right there. Who am I to write songs instead?” It appears to have pushed you fairly the opposite approach.
Yeah. it didn’t really feel intimidating in any respect. It felt like we had been on the clubhouse and everyone was doing their factor and hanging out and we’re having a good time. And within the meantime, the explanation we bought the clubhouse was for the Band to make our first album. So that’s the explanation we had been there. Bob simply jumped on the bandwagon, so to talk, and it felt so good that he needed to come back and hold too. It was excellent, on the proper time, and everyone felt actually good being there. It simply turned a ritual. Some individuals, on daily basis you stand up and chop wooden, and a few individuals write songs,
And but you had been by no means operating your songs-in-progress by Bob. It seems like he heard numerous these items as a completed product. Why was that?
Because there was one thing within me that I felt very pleased with. Bob and Albert Grossman, our supervisor, and different individuals too, I felt like, “They think they know us. They think they know what we do. They don’t know us.” And the concept of having the ability to do one thing with anyone that you just’re so near, and on the similar time you’ll be able to actually shock them and even blow their thoughts a little bit bit? That’s a great feeling. Yeah.
Musicians who had been round when the Band’s debut got here out universally say what a revelation the restraint, the dignity, the song-focused approaches had been, versus, say Cream. It was a radical shift that was extremely influential. How acutely aware had been you of the virtually oppositional nature of what you had been doing?
There is perhaps one thing unconscious happening in one thing like this. You don’t wanna be a follower, you wish to be on the entrance of this parade. So not as soon as did any of the fellows or me say, “Let’s do this because it’s different.” Never, ever. Really what occurred was we discovered ourselves up within the mountains, in an environment, on this clubhouse, and should you performed within the basement too loud, it damage your ears, and in addition you couldn’t hear the singer. So we tailored to the place we had been and what we had been doing in that second. And once we completed making Music From Big Pink, we had no thought what anyone was going to consider this. We knew what we thought of it, however we had no connection to the surface world in how it could be obtained. So all of that response was fairly a shock to us. What we did know, was that we had already been collectively for six or seven years earlier than we made that file, and we had been on the market and paid our dues and we had grown musically to a spot that we didn’t must be apparent. That we knew.
Was it basically since you’d gotten all of your scorching licks out on stage for years on finish, and thus didn’t have something to show in the best way that rock bands had been proving stuff in 1969 with prolonged solos and a extra superficial flashiness?
It actually was a maturing, a musical maturity that had set in. At that time, I had spent numerous time doing the whole lot on 11, as they are saying. [Laughs.] And that zeal and that pleasure, I appreciated. But I hadn’t but realized in regards to the subtleties, and I hadn’t realized in regards to the soulfulness within the rhythm, the soulfulness in what the areas may very well be too. And if you get to that place, that you’ve that sort of confidence or maturity or no matter it’s that enables you one thing like that, it’s a extremely gratifying place. That’s what Eric Clapton was referring to: “Oh my God, you can do that. You can do this in such a delicate way, and it feels that powerful. Whoa.” It had nothing to do with something apart from the place that we had grown to.
The chordal licks that turned an enormous a part of your sound, versus the stabby single-note leads, did that come partially from individuals like Steve Cropper or Pops Staples?
You imply going to a spot the place you don’t have to come back out of the door screaming and enjoying the whole lot above the twelfth fret? I believe that these individuals you talked about, I believed, “See, now there’s somebody who’s been around,” due to the best way that Steve Cropper performed on these Otis Redding data. Fantastic. Or Sam and Dave. Fantastic enjoying. And I cherished the simplicity of the accompaniment that Pop Staples did. One of the foremost individuals to me that I believed actually understood this was Curtis Mayfield. Yes, he was one other one. What he did with a guitar, I believed, “Whoa, that guy ain’t got nothing to prove. It’s all right there.” So I used to be drawn to that. These different issues had turn into very apparent to me and I had been there and completed that.
You clearly famously retired from touring, however do you’ve gotten any regrets about it?
I’ve by no means thought-about that. I made a film known as The Last Waltz declaring myself on that. I did it for a few years. I did it beneath essentially the most unbelievable circumstances. The Hawks and the Band, we performed joints that you just couldn’t think about. We had been utterly fortunate that we had been alive, and we performed the largest live shows on the earth. So I had seen the whole lot that I wanted to see from that, and I bought to a spot after doing this for greater than 16 years. I felt like I used to be in a play. I felt like Yul Brynner in The King and I, having been doing this for 50 years. I’m saying the identical songs, the identical phrases each night time, and I simply exit and I try this. I used to be actually hungry for a problem that I didn’t know the right way to meet.
I needed to study. I needed to maintain on rising, and it’s as a result of I went on the highway at such an early age. I’ve at all times had this starvation for simply absorbing extra and rising creatively. So that’s why I labored with Martin Scorsese on all these motion pictures and different individuals as properly. . There are so many instances, in what I’ve labored on because the Band, that I awakened within the morning and thought, “Oh my God, I don’t know how to do this. I gotta figure this shit out.” And that could be a feeling that’s difficult and it’s thrilling to me, slightly than doing one thing again and again. And then once I would really feel like making a file, I’d make a file. I may go off in tangents and say, “I’m gonna revisit my [Native American] heritage on this and work with some artists nobody’s ever heard of that I think are extraordinary, and we’re gonna delve into something.” I believed, whether or not proper or unsuitable, I had earned this. I had paid my dues in so many different ways in which I can do one thing that basically makes me really feel like I’m rising.
I bear in mind I requested you earlier than the large Rock & Roll Hall of Fame anniversary live performance should you had any plans to leap on stage, and even that wasn’t in your head. You don’t appear to have any itch to carry out, not to mention tour.
I utterly admire those that have a must be in entrance of individuals and to carry out. I get all of that, however I simply wanted to make use of a distinct muscle. I wanted to make use of a distinct a part of my mind, and I didn’t really feel this starvation to stand up in entrance of everyone and showcase. I needed to do various things. And I did it. And I do know lots of people, their life revolves round, “I’m gonna make some music and then I’m gonna go out and do a tour, then I’m gonna make some music and go out and do a tour.” And I did that rather a lot, and sooner or later, I don’t know, it grew outdated to me. It’s a beautiful technique to make a dwelling — going out and folks cheering for you and paying you to go on the market and try this. It’s extraordinary. And as I say, I’ve nice respect for that, however I don’t know, I simply have a distinct starvation.
There was an try at recording with the Hawks firstly of the method of the Blonde on Blonde album. Eventually Dylan went to Nashville after which simply introduced you out. But do you bear in mind these preliminary periods?
We by no means thought of it because it being the start of that file. Bob hadn’t written these songs in any respect. I believe he wrote two songs. One was known as “Please Crawl Out Your Window.” I overlook the identify of the opposite one. And we went in and recorded “Crawl Out Your Window” and I believe we recorded one other one too.
You did a bunch of takes of “I Wanna Be Your Lover,” in response to studio data. And there additionally was an early, alternate model of “Visions of Johanna.”
Yeah, it may very well be. But what we got here to grasp was that we considered it like, “Oh, this guy is used to playing by himself a lot.” And if you go right into a studio with studio musicians, that’s what they do. You go in, they usually attempt to determine in quarter-hour what you are attempting to do and check out to determine some little elements in that. That’s not who we’re. So once we went into the studio with Bob for the primary time, we actually understood that he simply performs a track and folks attempt to meet up with him within the studio. And we had been like, “No, we’re a band. There’s five of us, and the five of us need to figure out what to do.” We’re not employed studio musicians. We consider ourselves as the alternative of that.
It wasn’t till we made Music From Big Pink and The Band and Stage Fright and these different data that we had been actually capable of get throughout what our course of was. And our course of wasn’t a studio musician’s course of or what Bob was in search of. When Bob first performed me a few of the data he had simply made, it gave the impression of musicians desperately making an attempt to determine what the hell was going to occur within the track subsequent. And that’s OK if you’re one individual. With the fellows in Nashville, Bob would play a track, and they might instantly determine who amongst them would play on the monitor. And then their job was, “Oh, I’ll play this little melody thing here or there.” And they might try this. They would simply kind it out shortly as a result of they’re studio musicians.
It didn’t actually enchantment to us. And Bob knew that. Because I might say to him, “We’ve got to figure out what we’re going to do here. Just scrambling along without knowing where this starts or ends isn’t good, because everybody needs to decide on the language that we’re playing together. We’re not all just looking at you trying to figure out what you’re doing.” When we had been enjoying stay, we had found out the preparations of the songs and what we had been going to do. So that was wonderful, however this was a distinct factor. So that’s when he mentioned, “I’m going to go down to Nashville, and I’d like you to come with me.” I’d been to Nashville earlier than, they usually weren’t very welcoming in any respect. They had been a cult — a cult of fellows that had been simply so good at what they did. But this membership didn’t need another members.
In ’74, you guys clearly toured with Bob once more, as captured on the Before the Flood stay abum. I believe individuals heard maybe the affect of stimulants within the power of the preparations. Is that apocryphal, or was that a part of what was happening as far the completely hypercharged power of a few of these songs on that tour?
When we performed in 1966, Bob was going by way of a stage with amphetamines, after all, and it gave him numerous go-power. We simply thought, “Wow, some people do that, some people don’t.” We’d already seen that within the rockabilly world the place everyone took bennies or dexy or one thing, and we’d already gone by way of that interval. By the time the 1974 tour got here up, Bob was in a very totally different place, and he wasn’t utilizing pace in any respect.
What we had been doing, and doubtless what contributed to the power and energy of that music, was that we had been revisiting a spot the place we had been booed all over the world. We’d been booed to loss of life. Now, we had been coming again, and everybody was performing like, “This is great. It’s always been great.” But we remembered what that was like, and there was a sure vengeance in the best way we had been enjoying. I believe it had one thing to do with enjoying music with energy and confidence in your face. It was extra about our power and pleasure that we had been dwelling by way of. It wasn’t tremendously totally different from what we did years earlier than. There was an eight-year hole, and the eagerness within the music wasn’t tremendously totally different. But now, we may play as onerous as we needed, and no one may dare say something.
I think about that if you first heard punk rock, will need to have thought, “We were doing that on stage in 1966.”
There was one thing of that. And numerous punk rock, I believed, “boy, do we need this, this slap in the face.” It’s refreshing. We had been in a interval the place the music really turned the voice of the era. It was a heavy duty, pivotal for the neighborhood and the unity of the youth throughout the nation and the globe. But after that? What then? Punk rock declared, “We don’t give a fuck about unity. [laughs] We don’t care about anything. We just wanna piss on your shoes.” I believed, “OK, that’s the next passion play.” I admired a few of these guys. Elvis Costello was a terrific songwriter. The Clash? Fantastic. And the Ramones, with their easy musicality, took me again to my early days with Ronnie Hawkins, the place there was a sort of innocence. But a few of it simply gave the impression of dangerous music to me, and I believe that was the intention. I didn’t have a lot of an issue with punk. My solely gripe was with Scorsese. He cherished punk, and he performed it so loud. It was the primary time I ever requested somebody, “Could you turn down the music a bit, please?”
“It Makes No Difference” is considered one of my favourite songs you’ve ever written, and I do know it’s Eddie Vedder’s favourite track that you just wrote. What do you recall in regards to the precise writing of that track?
At that time, I needed to put in writing a track that Rick [Danko] may sing the hell out of, and I used to be making an attempt to actually discover a highly effective place for that voice of his to go. I used to be additionally wanting to put in writing one thing that I needed to play on. I needed to put in writing a track and do a specific sort of guitar enjoying, and do a factor with Garth on sax. I had this entire imaginative and prescient in my thoughts. It was once more my factor of being on this group, on this membership, and my job was to put in writing materials for these actors to play.
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