This week sees the discharge of The Punisher #1 from Marvel Comics. With Frank Castle having disappeared, the all-new ongoing sequence introduces a new character to the mantle of The Punisher, Joe Garrison, a former S.H.I.E.L.D. agent who places his very specific set of abilities to make use of following the deaths of his household.
The new Punisher sequence comes from the artistic group of author David Pepose, artist Dave Wachter, and colorist Dan Brown. For Pepose, The Punisher is the author’s newest Marvel work. Pepose can also be writing the present Moon Knight: City of the Dead miniseries and beforehand wrote, amongst different issues, the second iteration of Savage Avengers, which included an arc that includes the Punisher of 2099.
The Beat caught up with Pepose to speak the origins of Joe Garrison, the character’s connection to the bigger Marvel Universe, and the politics of The Punisher in 2023. Check out that interview, together with a preview of this week’s The Punisher #1, under.
Joe Grunenwald: Joe Garrison is the new Punisher. That’s additionally my first title and the title of the road the place I grew up. What are you doing? What are you doing to me?
David Pepose: You know, we did this particularly for you. So I’m glad that you just seen.
Grunenwald: Is his sidekick going to be my mom’s maiden title and the final 4 of my social safety quantity, ’trigger I must know.
Pepose: I believe I’m going to wish that only for affirmation’s sake. So, yeah, simply be happy to ship that to me. And don’t pay any consideration to your checking account for an additional week.
Grunenwald: You’re going to be disillusioned by what you discover there.
What are you able to inform me about Joe? What is his life like earlier than he turns into The Punisher? You’ve stated elsewhere that he’s an ex-SHIELD agent who has turn into a household man. But what’s his character like?
Pepose: Joe is the type of man who’s type of buried the previous, and sadly, nothing actually stays buried without end. He wasn’t simply a SHIELD agent, he was a SHIELD wetworks agent, Black Ops. He was tasked with performing all types of deadly enterprise because the Gravedigger of SHIELD. And over the course of his profession, he discovered one other strategy to take his life, one other path ahead, and that was the trail of household, the trail of peace. And so what winds up taking place is, someone blows up Joe’s home along with his household nonetheless inside. The police, not figuring out something about Joe’s document, as a result of it’s been so closely redacted, they assume, ‘Well, we can’t discover the husband, the husband should be concerned. He’s a individual of curiosity at minimal, prime suspect at greatest, we have to deliver him in.’ And so I’ve pitched this Punisher sequence as John Wick meets The Fugitive, the place Joe’s opening mission, and type of our origin story with him, is him attempting to determine who set him up and why.
And a lot of the story is also about – I do know there’s been a lot of questions on The Punisher and whether or not or not that may be a legacy. I type of refute that query, having written Punisher 2099 in Savage Avengers and being accustomed to characters like Rachel Cole-Alves, who I like, and Lynn Michaels, even Jigsaw himself was the Punisher for a quick time frame. But with that each one being stated, it’s not at all times a legacy you select. Sometimes it’s a legacy that finds you, and that’s going to be a large a part of the throughline of this opening arc. It’s going to be Joe determining, what begins off as a standalone mission, how do the parameters change? How does this morph into one thing larger and extra long-term? In different phrases, how does this mission turn into a conflict? It’s been actually enjoyable to have the ability to discover this character and type of get to essentially get a sense of who he’s.
I believe the most important distinction that I’d say between Frank Castle and Joe Garrison is, by the point you meet Frank in Amazing Spider-Man #129, he’s already been the Punisher, he’s already made that call. He’s marinated in that ache and that loss lengthy sufficient to make a resolution, and he’s been doing it seemingly for a few minutes. In this sequence, we will get to observe Joe, within the second, as he’s coming to phrases with all of this. The wound continues to be contemporary for him, very contemporary, and that’s type of how his methodology begins to evolve over the course of the sequence. It’s a lot of blue-sky considering, and that’s a enjoyable alternative with a legacy character. You work out what components are core to a character that you must maintain as a way to make them viable, and to make them nonetheless ring true as The Punisher, or no matter legacy character you’re speaking about, versus what parts can we tweak? You know, like how Robbie Reyes managed to pivot Ghost Rider from bike tradition to muscle automobile tradition.
In this case, Joe, as a substitute of taking the Death Wish route, we’re going the John Wick route, which is focusing on the gun fu of all of it. We’re not focusing as a lot on the {hardware} as a lot because the choreography that it’s getting used with, Joe’s means to weave by crowds of individuals along with his SHIELD weapons – which have bullets, they’re deadly, simply in case anyone’s questioning. But additionally, [it’s about] the choreography of it and in addition having the ability to use his surroundings as improvisation. So belief me, this Punisher goes to have a physique depend. Don’t fear an excessive amount of about that. But the opposite factor is, there are some punishments worse than dying. And so that’s type of my long run objectives for Joe, is to offer him a rogue’s gallery of people that, some individuals are going to only die on the primary try, however some, in the event that they reside for spherical 2, they’re going to remorse it in a actual, everlasting approach.
Grunenwald: You’ve stated that Tom Brevoort got here to you and stated they have been desirous to introduce a new Punisher. How a lot collaboration or how a lot enter did you’ve gotten in arising with Joe’s backstory?
Pepose: I like working with Tom Brevoort, I’ve labored with him on the vast majority of my work at Marvel. I can’t say sufficient good issues about him. He’s like a good tennis accomplice, [and] we actually play off one another in a enjoyable approach. This was probably the most improvement that Tom and I’ve ever accomplished on a sequence collectively. We spent the higher a part of two months actually going backwards and forwards, pitching totally different concepts of the way to get this Punisher throughout in a approach that stands out on his personal, however that additionally, you recognize, reads responsibly within the 12 months 2023, and in addition can slot in a runway. We didn’t need this origin arc to pull on so lengthy that it overstayed its welcome. We wished it to be good and tight and punchy.
There was a lot of collaboration additionally with Dave Wachter, the artist on the guide. Dave is actually instrumental within the visible vocabulary that we’re utilizing on this, in the way in which that Joe type of strikes in any specific scene, but additionally the design. Dave did a actually cool job of taking what looks as if a recognizable Punisher look, however doing one thing very totally different with it that stands on its personal. It’s distinctive. So yeah, it was a large jam band session with all of us. Once we completed hammering the entire thing out, we had a actually cool thought for Punisher each by way of an origin, but additionally [in terms of] a car for him transferring ahead for additional adventures, and type of his storytelling engine.
Grunenwald: As a former SHIELD agent, does Joe have any connections to different present Marvel heroes? Like, did he ever run into Black Widow within the discipline, or something like that, that you may tease?
Pepose: The factor that we talked at size about is, our objective is to have the ability to have our Punisher be capable to cross-pollinate throughout the Marvel Universe, however particularly along with his opening arm, I nonetheless need it to be standalone. I would like him to have the ability to stand on his personal two ft. Like I do know. For instance, there was some dialogue early on [about] may we’ve got Spider-Man on this, and I assumed lengthy and exhausting about it, as a result of I like Spider-Man, you recognize, I bought to put in writing him in Spider-Verse Unlimited and it was a profession spotlight. And I stated, we’re not prepared. It’s not the appropriate time. I would like Joe’s story to be Joe’s story, and I wish to present him in motion with out having to lean on a larger hero, a extra established hero to legitimize him. He’s respectable on his personal. But that’s to not say that we wouldn’t rule that type of stuff out sooner or later. There are undoubtedly a few candidates that I’ve already talked with editorial about, some larger names and a few much less large that I believe could be type of cool foils to group up with Joe. But yeah, it’s actually a lot of blue-sky considering by way of who Joe may cross paths with after the origin story.
Grunenwald: You talked about a little bit in regards to the villains. Can you tease anyone who’s going to point out up? Are there basic Punisher villains that is perhaps popping up, or is it going to be new characters?
Pepose: It’ll be a little little bit of a combine. There’s a lot of new faces for Joe. I wish to give him his personal rogues to struggle. That stated, we’re type of reimagining a few characters, a few of them classics, and a few of them a little deeper within the toy field. I really took a little little bit of inspiration from Dick Tracy. There are some villains you kill, and there are some you let reside, however they’re fairly tousled afterward. And in order that was a lot of what I used to be considering after I chosen villains for this opening arc, like, ‘If they live, what can I make them look like afterwards?’ And in order that was actually enjoyable. But yeah, Joe’s combating – I don’t wish to spoil an excessive amount of. I can say like, for instance, I assumed the Inner Demons Gang was such a cool factor that matches like precisely the aesthetic that I used to be going for. You may have the Punisher combating like anonymous mooks with weapons, and we’ve seen the Punisher struggle gangsters with weapons for 50 years. But guys with electrical swords and demon masks, that RULES. That looks like the proper pinch of Marvel spice to throw in on this street-level crime motion story. Things like which are one thing that basically appeals to me. Issue three specifically, we’ve got a actual deep minimize from Daredevil lore, a villain that solely appeared very briefly, however they have been the primary Daredevil comics I ever learn, so that you higher imagine that villain’s coming. And they match The Punisher rather well. So yeah, a lot of enjoyable stuff. And I’m very excited, we’ve got a bunch of new villains additionally within the works, that I’m excited to hopefully roll out down the road.
Grunenwald: So you touched on it a little bit, however I’m within the politics of The Punisher. It’s actually exhausting to separate the iconography of Frank Castle from the appropriation of it that has taken place. I’m curious, how aware are you of that as you’re approaching this? Is it a aware resolution to maneuver away from Frank and forge a new path with that legacy?
Pepose: That was, after all, a large a part of our dialog after we have been arising with this character. The Punisher has at all times been very reflective of the period that that exists in. The Punisher, after they first debuted, that was the 12 months that Death Wish got here out. When Frank Castle’s first mini sequence got here out, that was the 12 months that Bernard Goetz was on trial for being the Subway Vigilante. It’s no coincidence that The Punisher’s rise coincided with the Reagan years and the conflict on medicine. I believe the cool factor about doing a legacy Punisher is you get to type of wipe the slate clear a little bit and begin considering, ‘What does the Punisher look like in the year 2023? How do you tell the story in as responsible a way as possible?’
Of course, a lot of The Punisher’s attraction is the tenacity, and the angle, and the all-too-human limitations, and the way a character, by sheer toughness and single-mindedness, can transcend a few of these limitations. I believe these are all of the core components that I believe have been necessary to deliver to Joe. But additionally, I wouldn’t essentially think about The Punisher to be an aspirational character. And so there have been undoubtedly choices manufactured from, how can we type of, barely, barely pivot a little in that regard. I do know there was a lot of speak, for instance, about Joe’s SHIELD weapon. And like I stated earlier than, it’s simply as deadly as something that Frank Castle was utilizing. But I did wish to be accountable author, and I don’t need anyone to stroll into, like, a Walmart and assume that they’ll stroll out as The Punisher. I did purposely attempt to elevate these types of parts, and I assumed having Joe as a SHIELD agent was type of a comparable factor. The Punisher as a image is type of thumbing its nostril at due course of. It’s very a lot a image for extra-judicial vigilantism. So yeah, while you see regulation enforcement with that, that does type of make your hair stand on finish a little bit.
[The Punisher co-creator] Gerry Conway talked about [how] The Punisher represents a failure of society, that one thing is unsuitable with society if a character like The Punisher has to exist, and I believe a lot of the dialog again then was speaking about due course of and whether or not or not due course of ties the authorities’ fingers. I believe the dialog to have at present is that, the system appears so hopelessly rigged in opposition to the little man, simply systemically, structurally. You see it in our legislators, you see it in our companies, you see it in the way in which that legal guidelines are enforced or not enforced. So for me, my objective, and this was one thing that I talked a lot about with Tom, I actually wished to make ‘The People’s Punisher,’ someone who can struggle for the little man, which is actually what the preliminary intent was for The Punisher, and that I believe has perhaps gotten distorted through the years as Frank Castle has gotten a monitor document, but additionally has [been in] tales which were marked with ultraviolence. So that is one thing that I believe nonetheless suits Joe in that framework of The Punisher, of the lone man who’s simply getting by primarily based on his wits and his toughness and the weapons, but additionally any of the surroundings round him, however on the identical time, he’s punching up. That’s actually one thing that I’ve at all times tried to think about with this sequence. I’m not trying to alienate present Punisher followers. If you’re a fan of Frank Castle, I don’t assume you’re a dangerous individual. I wrote a Punisher in Savage Avengers with Jake Gallows. I requested for Jake Gallows. My considering is, how can we construct a larger desk. I don’t subscribe to the binary that you may’t write a Punisher guide with out offending someone. I actually really feel like there’s a approach that you may have a Punisher that isn’t at the price of one individual or the opposite, and that’s actually one thing that I’ve been attempting to do with the sequence.
And I believe it helps that you’ve someone like Dave Wachter on the artwork and Dan Brown on the colours. The guide is unimpeachably handsome, and it’s actually impressed me to maintain bringing my A-Game, and simply to be like, I do know that Dave and Dan are leaving all of it out within the discipline with this, so I may do no much less. I’ve to work to one of the best of my talents to inform the story, however in a approach that’s not romanticizing something dangerous or unsuitable or irresponsible, however nonetheless can inform a Punisher story with out sacrificing any of its phrases. So yeah, it’s been a tightrope, however each guide I’ve labored on has been a tightrope in some capability relationship again to Spencer & Locke. My objective is to only inform the story as responsibly as I can, and to the very best of my talents, and past that, I hope the readers give us a shot.
Grunenwald: I admire how considerate that response is. It’s clear that you just’ve put a lot of thought into it.
Pepose: Yes, I did not take it frivolously. Brian Bendis stated one thing in his Substack that I assumed was actually attention-grabbing, [and] it’s that you just don’t flip down an project since you’re afraid of it. And completely I used to be afraid of this one beginning out, as a result of, as I informed Tom, I’ve a pitch in my again pocket for everyone, however you may’t anticipate, ‘Oh, hey, we’re gonna offer you a legacy Punisher.’ I didn’t plan for that, nevertheless it was good. The cool factor about legacy characters is it’s a clear slate, and also you’re in a position to type of reimagine these characters and do one thing completely sudden with them. I’m a comics reader, I’ve been a comics reader my entire life, I’ve labored in comics journalism. Sometimes readers attempt to anticipate the story slightly than be current in them, and I’ve been responsible of the identical factor. I believe that’s why legacy characters are sometimes so polarizing, [because] you don’t know what to anticipate, and so that you don’t have an expectation after which the guide can’t match into an expectation since you don’t know what to anticipate. But that’s high-quality. That’s the factor about Marvel, I imply, you look again to Eric Masterson as Thor, you look again to Steve Rogers as The Captain, at James Rhodes as Iron Man, and even the all-new all-different X Men, even Cap’s Kooky Quartet. Change has been a core a part of the material. And I believe the factor that I at all times wish to stress is, it’s at all times additive. It is at all times additive. Comics as an business is ‘waste not, want not.’ I promise you, even probably the most Z-List characters, they present up once more. You have a look at Tom King‘s Danger Street, he made like a whole critically acclaimed book based on that. So that’s the factor that I at all times wish to stress for followers who’re very protecting of The Punisher, as they need to be, I completely perceive, I’m protecting of my characters, too. It’s all additive, and we’re simply constructing a larger desk. And we’re simply attempting so as to add one thing new and enjoyable and funky to the Marvel Universe. Giving Marvel its personal John Wick? That’s a enjoyable guide to me.
Grunenwald: What are you excited for individuals to see after they get their fingers on this sequence?
Pepose: I talked about it a little bit, however Dave Wachter’s art work. We talked a lot about Cass Cain Batgirl, we talked about basic Nightwing, and simply by way of the visible iconography of all of it, how can we make this as kinetic as doable? And I like writing struggle sequences as properly, so having someone like Dave, who additionally relishes drawing these struggle sequences, it truly is like a match made in heaven.
Also, watching Joe evolve, even over the course of our opening arc. It type of shocked me, as a result of all people’s used to seeing The Punisher as such a stoic character. I don’t assume we’re ever going to have a Punisher who’s tremendous in-touch along with his emotions. But I do assume that Joe is considerate, and watching his mission evolve, even over the course of the origin, it type of snuck up on me too, however I believe that winds up being coming the emotional coronary heart of the guide. He’s the one that did dangerous issues and stopped doing these dangerous issues, and now these dangerous issues have type of been unearthed once more, and is there a approach that he can type of channel that, if not for the higher good, perhaps for the nice of people that need assistance?
And I’m additionally very excited for individuals to see these villains. Especially after the opening arc, there are a lot of brand-new villains that I’ve pitched to Marvel, and thus far the response has been fairly receptive, so actually, it’s simply a matter of what number of of them can I get within the guide earlier than, properly, earlier than we get to one thing even larger. We’ve bought some actually enjoyable stuff deliberate in our opening arc and past, andI can’t look ahead to individuals to get to learn it.
Published by Marvel Comics, The Punisher #1 is out in shops and digitally this Wednesday, November eighth.
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