Kelly Thompson on CAPTAIN MARVEL, BIRDS OF PREY and the power in sisterhood

By Jim McDermott

By the time Kelly Sue DeConnick introduced the finish of her epic run on Captain Marvel again in June of 2015, she had established Carol Danvers as considered one of the most necessary and advanced characters in the Marvel Universe, one that might develop into the foundation for the movie model of the character. The years that adopted would see two shorter sequence that explored totally different points of Carol’s life. Writer Margaret Stohl would additionally set up an necessary new twist, that Carol was herself truly half-Kree. 

Then in 2019, Kelly Thompson got here on board the relaunch of the ebook. And over a rare 50 points, she has been capable of not solely construct on DeConnick’s imaginative and prescient of Carol as a hero however expanded Carol’s life, giving her not solely a Kree half-sister Lauri-Ell, however a kind of daughter in Binary, the child-like power being who emerged from her in a time of disaster and would go on to save lots of her life. 

For as a lot as Captain Marvel was billed as a solo ebook, in Thompson’s fingers it truly turned a crew ebook stuffed with ladies of the Marvel Universe. Even as the ebook leapt from the distant future and pocket dimensions to the far reaches out of outer area (and an enormous and horrifying return of the Brood), as a rule Thompson used these conditions to discover the relationships between ladies, the ways in which in each other’s friendship they may draw power and overcome the prisons of trauma. 

In September, Thompson turns to a complete new group of fascinating ladies, taking on DC’s fabled Birds of Prey, with a forged that features Black Canary, Cassandra Cain, Big Barda, WildC.A.T.S.’ Zealot and Harley Quinn. 

I spoke to Thompson through e mail about Birds of Prey and her iconic run on Captain Marvel.  

First of all, congratulations on Birds of Prey! It looks as if such an ideal title for you. Is it a title you’ve been a fan of for a very long time? Any favourite runs? 

KELLY THOMPSON: Thank you! Yes! I’ve learn – I’m fairly certain – each concern of Birds of Prey. That stated, if I’m sincere, the BOP followers are analyzing all the things I say a lot proper now I’m afraid if I pinpoint favourite runs they’ll learn an excessive amount of into it! So I’ll simply say that clearly the Gail Simone run actually solidified the ebook for me as one thing actually particular – I believe it’s notably enjoyable in there when it’s Gail and Nicola Scott and after they’re crossing over with Secret Six, that’s in all probability a few of my favourite stuff. 

Your lineup is…INSANE. Really surprising. Can you share slightly bit about your emotions for every character? 

THOMPSON: I actually simply shot my shot. I simply requested for each single favourite character I needed (or wanted) — and to my absolute shock DC simply… stated sure? I wish to suppose they may really feel the pure power and ardour behind the pitch – like actual real love – trigger it’s there – baked into each phrase. [Laughs]. 

Okay. So I can’t get too particular on these for apparent causes, however I’ll do my greatest. I needed Dinah as a result of I like her and as a result of I had a fantastic concept for a very emotionally resonant story along with her at the heart. And as a result of it doesn’t actually really feel like an actual BIRDS OF PREY ebook to me with out at the least Dinah or Babs. 

Cassandra Cain might be my favourite DC character of all time, in order that was a no brainer. Doesn’t harm for this specific premise that she’s an absolute badass and considered one of the greatest fighters in the world.  Barda has lengthy been a favourite of mine. I believe she’s extremely underused which suggests there’s lots you are able to do along with her. Visually she’s extremely enjoyable, particularly with an artist like Leo and I deeply take pleasure in her slight fish-out-of-water factor, I discover it endlessly charming on her. 

What can I say? I like my WildC.A.T.S. And Zealot is the greatest WildC.A.T. (no, I cannot be listening to different opinions on that!) so after all I reached for her. I additionally beloved that she was a real darkish horse choose. There’s one thing particular about this plot that makes Zealot a great match – and although I can’t say extra, I believe it will likely be enjoyable for people to find her or re-discover her right here.  

Harley is divisive. I used to be frightened about choosing her for optics causes solely. I knew a number of individuals would adore it and a number of individuals would hate it. I believed, from a sensible standpoint, she would in all probability assist the total gross sales of our first arc, and she actually labored for some plot causes. 

I do know you may’t say a lot about storylines, however might you say in any respect what the ebook is about thematically, in a phrase or phrase or three paragraphs lol?

THOMPSON: My Birds of Prey is about what Birds of Prey is all the time about in my opinion – sisterhood. Women serving to ladies and constructing relationships collectively, constructing one thing higher. That stated there may also be loads of ladies punching different ladies in the face. What can I say? Sometimes the method we get to sisterhood is messy and sophisticated. 

For the final couple years, I’ve been telling anybody who would pay attention that the Marvel superhero crew books that everybody must be testing is the stuff you’ve been doing on Black Widow and Captain Marvel. In each books you’ve taken a “solo” title and became not solely a gaggle ebook, however one stuffed with feminine characters and relationships.   

THOMPSON: Ah, thanks a lot. I believe I took it personally years again when an editor stated they thought I used to be higher on solo books [laughs]. I like the dynamic between characters – I like bouncing them off each other and suggesting personal jokes and misplaced/hidden tales in their collective pasts. I adore it as a reader and as a author, it simply makes all the things really feel so wealthy and lived in. I do suppose, even on solo books, constructing out the supporting forged is critically necessary. It’s additionally only a good technique to carry in new readers and retain different readers. Spider-Woman was a daily recurring character in most of our run, and I believe most Spider-Woman followers learn each concern of our ebook as a result of Jessica bought some nice growth (and all the greatest jokes).

What was your take on Carol going into Captain Marvel? What did you consider as key to understanding her character?

THOMPSON: I believe DeConnick distilled Carol Danvers higher and extra merely than anybody else – Higher, Further, Faster. She all the time needs to go up – that’s Carol. It’s fairly easy, actually. But it takes somebody like DeConnick to search out that in the writing and MAKE IT that straightforward, to distill it down. I’m extremely grateful for what DeConnick did with Carol, it paved the method for thus many people to take the character in highly effective constructive instructions. 

The sequence has concerned a number of totally different sorts of feminine relationships, from Jess, who’s Carol’s Person; to Jen Takeda, who sees Carol as a mentor; Ripley or Amora, who’re enemies of kinds, but in addition, It’s sophisticated; Rogue, who’s a complete totally different sort of sophisticated; to Carol’s new sibling Lauri-Ell and her sort-of-daughter Binary. Plus we get moments with Scarlet Witch, Phyla, Monica, Echo, Future Emma Frost and Kamala, that are every totally different in and of themselves. What was it like writing that? It’s so totally different than what most superhero crew books appear to be they permit a author to do. 

THOMPSON: Yeah, I imply, I believe I used to be very fortunate that the success of Captain Marvel allowed us to do issues slightly in a different way and for me to lean into the issues I used to be extra in (and believed the readers would have an interest in) however that had been possibly a bit atypical for a profitable superhero ebook?

I didn’t need to destroy the world each six points and so I attempted to provide you with some much less standard plots – like Carol going to the future, Carol doing a physique swap with Dr. Strange, or making an attempt to be taught magic in order to get rid of considered one of her weaknesses, and then being despatched to a magical jail for “magic crimes,” and sorta having an existential disaster.

But a part of that’s simply pulling in attention-grabbing characters and letting them bounce of each other a bit and in the case of Captain Marvel I definitely leaned extra towards ladies – I simply…I identical to ladies! And a number of nice ones are tremendous underutilized which works out properly for me. 

Would you say getting to construct out this complete universe of feminine characters gave you any concepts or insights as a author that you just need to carry into Birds of Prey or different books going ahead?

THOMPSON: Absolutely. I imply, I believe I’ve been making an attempt to put in writing my very own model of a Birds of Prey kind ebook ever since my A-Force run ended — I surrounded Carol with ladies heroes, I had Black Widow construct her personal crew in San Francisco, largely ladies. I believe the similar method a number of writers are obsessive about father-son relationships, I’m obsessive about sisterhood. So even when a ebook isn’t essentially ABOUT that factor, I believe writers nonetheless discover themselves leaning into the concepts they obsess over, the issues that fascinate them. It isn’t essentially a plan, it’s extra natural than that. 

And I need to be clear, a part of my obsession with Sisterhood is that traditionally in actual life I don’t suppose I’ve been nice at it. I believe the world has lengthy been structured in such a method that it completely pits ladies in opposition to one another in the most brutal and disgusting methods, and I fall prey to that, identical to anybody else. But it’s one thing that I’ve acknowledged as actually poisonous and actively work to extricate myself from – and considered one of the some ways – maybe the greatest method in my case as a author – is thru these tales. Presenting a greater method, a extra inspirational and aspirational different. Something for me to work towards, one thing for all of us to work towards. 

What made you need to make Jen Takeda an ongoing character in the story? She’s not somebody with any apparent connection to Carol. 

THOMPSON: I simply hate when actually nice characters like Jen get misplaced in the shuffle of cancellations and new ebook launches. It’s not anybody’s fault, it’s only a factor that occurs and it’s a bummer.  I knew in Carol’s tales we’d be speaking lots about power – individuals having power, rising in power, harnessing power, and additionally it being stolen – and like several character with ‘power that is also curse’ – Jen’s bought wonderful parallels to that in a number of methods. She has wealthy baggage, identical to Carol. And I hope somebody is ready to choose her up and carry her ahead from right here.

Laura and Binary have added a lot, too, and did so just about instantly. Were they all the time a part of the idea for the ebook? What made you need to add them to Carol’s life? And why do you suppose they’ve each landed with readers in addition to they’ve? 

THOMPSON: We talked about me including a relative – a half-sister – fairly early. It appeared like a waste to not construct on the nice stuff Stohl had executed with Carol’s mom and Carol’s origin in Life of Captain Marvel. And a half-sister appeared like each the apparent alternative and the most suitable option, which regularly aren’t the similar however right here appeared like they had been. I’m additionally an enormous fan of big ladies fighters, even higher in the event that they’re additionally kind of strangers in an odd land (Barda!). I discover that idea fairly charming. I suppose it’s slightly drained and it may well play out, however I’ve to say when executed effectively, I all the time take pleasure in it. There are so many quirky little permeations inside it which can be so enjoyable. 

Binary was totally different. Binary got here from us desirous to push on Carol’s powers and limitations and additionally the plain actuality that Binary is a reputation (and character design!), tied to Carol, however simply sitting there unused as a result of she IS Captain Marvel now and it’s unlikely to vary anytime quickly. So I believed we must always truly attempt to use it to make one thing cool and (in the end) devastating. Success! (cries briefly in center of answering questions).

So lots of the villains in the sequence are poisonous males—Nuclear Man (actually); Vox Supreme; Ove. 

THOMPSON: [Laughs]. Yeah, I suppose that isn’t a coincidence. Nuclear Man after all is an outdated character that we simply gave a re-design to – I up to date his speech to a extra trendy model after all, however we actually toned him down if something! 

I discovered Vox Supreme notably horrifying. The sense of violation is so profound. He’s actually trapping ladies inside themselves. When Binary first seems, she’s nearly like the spirit of Carol refusing to be sure. 

THOMPSON: Yes! Yes! Sorry. Man, you write these items and you hope individuals get it, however typically don’t actually know, as a result of for the most half, these sort of issues aren’t the issues individuals speak about in month-to-month superhero comics. I used to be interviewed final yr by an creator writing a ebook that features a chapter about Deadpool being King of The Monsters. And after I learn his accomplished chapter I used to be simply WEEPING. Because that man bought it. He bought all the things I used to be making an attempt to do. And you don’t must get it like he does to take pleasure in the story – it’s filled with jokes and violence and kissing and Jeff – it’s filled with all kinds of legit gratifying stuff, however man is it further satisfying while you come across somebody who completely related to the themes and understood what you had been making an attempt to say along with your “little superhero comic book story” – so thanks! Yes! Binary refuses to be sure. Her first phrases being a shouted NO are definitely no coincidence. Nor is how she dies – unwilling to be sure. 

How did you concentrate on what you needed in your large bads? Which one did you discover the most despicable?  

THOMPSON: I believe Vox Supreme is the scariest and in all probability additionally the most despicable. Encasing somebody in a (let’s be actual, claustrophobic nightmare swimsuit) that controls you? That man will not be messing round. It’s additionally arguably Carol’s largest loss in my run – she saves the day after all, however considered one of the Kree Refugee Camps will get blown up in the first concern of the arc earlier than she even realizes that she’s IN one thing. That’s the flaw of that arc in my opinion – wraps up too clear with none reflection again to what was misplaced. Panel time is all the time treasured. You by no means have as a lot as you suppose you’ve got. Sigh!

In the terrain of foolish villains: Where did the concept for the Snat come from? They are hilarious, and additionally appear tremendous particular to Carol: sizzling males driving cats who scent gross and are ridiculous.  

THOMPSON: Edibles possibly? I imply, that’s a joke, nevertheless it’s not completely out of left discipline. The pandemic was very disturbing, what can I say? But extra critically, I identical to villains like that. Weird and unusual and enjoyable and much less severe – I really feel such as you want SOME of that blended into all the dire world-ending stuff, proper? Then once more, Technet (considerably obscure tremendous bizarre Excalibur villains!) is considered one of my favourite villain groups, so I’ve clearly bought odd tastes and can’t be trusted. 

Speaking of cats who are usually not cats: Did you all the time hope to do a Chewie episode? It’s SO good. I really feel like they should accumulate it, “It’s Jeff!” and Fraction/Aja’s Pizza Dog story in a commerce.

THOMPSON: I used to be tremendous glad we bought to do a Chewie concern, however we had been sorta pressured into it by the Judgment Day occasion. You know, we’d JUST come out of a four-issue arc the place Carol is trapped in a “magical prison” and actually being judged by a magic tribunal – so her arriving again in New York solely to be judged once more for a tie-in to this occasion was NOT gonna work. But we had already dedicated and so I needed to discover a method round it. Chewie was the good resolution. And a fantastic reminder that typically the greatest stuff comes out of barely determined circumstances. 

For you to (practically) finish on the Brood—and to spend a lot time there—was an actual callback, and underlines one other main theme of the ebook, which is how individuals cope with trauma. You’ve bought Ripley changing into a villain as a result of she doesn’t need to get harm once more. Hazmat slowly opening up and revealing how a lot she’s been via. Rogue coping with what she’s executed to Carol, and Carol, who has not solely the previous traumas of Rogue and the Brood, however all the things round Ove. 

THOMPSON: DeConnick has a terrific quote that I believe sums up Carol exceptionally – which is one thing alongside the traces of – Captain America will get again up as a result of it’s the proper factor to do, Carol Danvers will get again up as a result of ‘fuck you’ – and I take into consideration that lots. I take into consideration why it feels so true and why it will be true. Carol and Steve have lots in frequent, however in the end very totally different journeys and a few of Carol’s journey has been…extraordinarily tousled, even by comedian ebook requirements. And so OF COURSE that is how she turned out. Her will is simply…I dunno if it’s “unmatched” however she’s up there. I believe Carol wills A LOT into existence.

And so it made sense to me to return to the origin of her trendy powerset she bought from the Brood torturing her. It made sense to me to dig into that and present slightly little bit of what may need occurred to her again then – and to place her via a special model of it at this time and see how and if it will or might change her once more. There’s lots I like from that arc, however what Sergio did once we’re inside Carol’s thoughts is a few of my favourite stuff and one thing I’d been desirous to do along with her for some time. 

What was it that made you need to make that such an necessary a part of the total story? 

THOMPSON: I believe issues (individuals/creatures/the world) making an attempt to take power from Carol or to regulate her is actually the theme of her life. And taking power from ladies is a story as outdated as time. It’s relatable and but for Carol, via a superhero lens, it’s epic in scope. 

Friendship appears to be such a key aspect in the method you view trauma, too. There are all these little moments all through the run the place totally different feminine characters assist every transfer ahead: Rogue serving to Hazmat really feel seen; Kwannon studying about her future daughter Sora, which is such a present for that character. 

THOMPSON: I believe Carol, and that is considered one of the methods in which we’re related, likes to do issues herself. She’s a great tactician and chief on a discipline of battle however she’s undoubtedly a “I’ll just do it myself so I know it’s right” sort of an individual and that doesn’t all the time result in being the most open, and it’s considered one of Carol’s best flaws. We definitely noticed her doubling down on it in that final arc – and headed for catastrophe – however the decision there and the wrap-up in concern 50 – is I believe a hopeful take a look at Carol altering – at her letting extra individuals in – of her accepting that she will be able to’t do EVERYTHING herself. 

Or there’s that second the place Laura goes to the touch Rogue to assist heal her, which is a fairly customary occasion. But the method Laura holds Rogue is so loving.  We by no means see these characters interacting in that method. 

THOMPSON: Thank you. It’s considered one of my favourite little beats from that arc. I truly initially wrote it with Laura kissing Rogue in that scene – not romantic or something, however simply because there are such a lot of examples of Logan doing that with Rogue over the years along with her power – together with the first time he provides his power to her. And so it simply made sense to me that Laura would do the similar.

But there have been issues about that and whereas at first I used to be annoyed, I do suppose, with the advantage of hindsight, it will have inadvertently made the scene about one thing else — when actually it was nearly friendship. About loving the individuals in your life, being glad they’re not useless, and being glad that you’ve got the power to do one thing about that. 

Part of me needs to say the ebook is about how friendship can heal outdated trauma, however I’m unsure that’s precisely proper. It’s not like these relationships erase what has occurred, is it? I preserve considering of Rogue’s provide at the finish: “Can I share the burden with you?” 

THOMPSON: I believe it’s not a lot how friendship can heal trauma – however possibly extra – permitting your pals that will help you let go of outdated trauma can open up your complete world? White-knuckling it via life CAN get you thru, however I doubt you’re having a good time. And we solely get one shot at this, so we must always in all probability attempt to have a good time if we are able to?

How do you concentrate on the position of friendship in coping with trauma? 

THOMPSON: I believe the hardest factor is to cope with trauma alone. I don’t care how robust you’re — emotionally, bodily, mentally, no matter you bought — all of us want somebody sooner or later. And whereas that feels scary and horrible to lots of people (me!) it’s additionally extremely stunning and necessary. People are usually not purported to be our personal little islands. We’re purported to make connections and construct communities.

The tales at the starting and the finish of the run with Rogue are unbelievable. First you ask Carol to relive considered one of her worst experiences, and then to let Rogue share her ache (which someway appears even more durable). 

THOMPSON: Thank you. Yeah, I are inclined to agree that the latter was truly more durable for Carol and if she and Rogue hadn’t gone via all the things they went via in arc 1, I don’t know that Carol might have managed to share that ache (and power) in the final arc – and it will have had dire penalties for her and everybody round her. I don’t suppose that’s mind-blowing storytelling or something, however I do suppose it’s good storytelling, and sadly, a sort of storytelling we see lots much less of as of late as a result of creators hardly ever have lengthy runs the place they will construct B and C plots out into one thing nice over time. It’s a disgrace. 

What made you need to start and finish with Rogue like that? 

THOMPSON: Well, I by no means dreamed we’d get 50 points, so I by no means even imagined it till we had been proper at the end line! In reality, the complete purpose I reached for Rogue in the first arc was as a result of I had no concept how lengthy I’d get to put in writing the ebook and I KNEW I needed an opportunity for these scenes between them – scenes that I’d been aching for as a fan. But after I discovered we had been getting to make use of each The Brood and some X-Men for our final arc I started to make plans for a way I might tie that every one collectively – first arc with final.  Sometimes a factor does truly come collectively and boy is that good. 

I do know I ought to have issues to say about Rhodey; he and Carol get a number of time in this ebook. But actually, I nonetheless really feel like Carol’s Ride or Die is Jess.  

THOMPSON: Listen, I like Rhodey and I believe he and Carol are a great match. Nobody advised me I needed to preserve them collectively, I did it as a result of they make sense in a number of methods and as a result of I didn’t suppose the focus in Captain Marvel’s superhero ebook must be “looking for love” (particularly when she’s being billed as considered one of the strongest and common feminine characters in the Marvel Universe), and so holding her in dependable low-drama relationship was a great match for our objectives most of the time. But I believe it’s unattainable to disclaim the chemistry of Carol and Jess. I couldn’t deny it as a reader or as a creator, nor would I need to. It simply is. And it’s stunning. 

How do you concentrate on Jess and Carol as a pair? Are they Thelma & Louise? Romy & Michele? Christina and Meredith? For you, what makes them such wonderful buddies? 

THOMPSON: I believe Carol and Jess undoubtedly have Thelma and Louise power and definitely that righteous vengeance vibe, however Thelma and Louise are determined – with out power or belongings or connections – so even the combat for his or her lives, whereas righteous and inspirational – is doomed to failure. So I like to consider Carol and Jess as a extra trendy Thelma and Louise —  who’ve already accrued a number of power and connections — and are thus not simply combating for their very own lives, however for everybody else’s. 

As concern 50 comes out, Carol has clearly realized a ton—about her powers, what it means to be a hero, and now loss. What would you say this story is been about for her?  

THOMPSON: Yeah, I believe it’s largely been self-discovery – studying and accepting her weaknesses – whereas making an attempt to push herself ahead into exceptionalism – to push ahead into “what’s next.” 

And what has it been about for you? 

THOMPSON: Probably a bit the similar. Much much less attention-grabbing after all. But you may’t put your character via these issues for practically 5 years and not must confront them your self.  Like Carol, like most of us, I’m without end a piece in progress. 

Congratulations once more on the wonderful run. I can’t wait to see the way it all ties up, and to learn Birds of Prey!

THOMPSON: Thank you! 

Did you learn Captain Marvel #50? Are you trying ahead to Birds of Prey? Let The Beat know what you’re considering, right here in the remark part or over on social media @comicsbeat.