Returning to KINGDOM COME with Mark Waid

In 1996, Mark Waid and Alex Ross‘s Kingdom Come revealed a darkish potential future for the DC Universe. The collection was set in a world that had embraced a brand new, extra violent era of superheroes, led by the murderous Magog. A disillusioned Superman had retired from public life, whereas an ailing Batman had retreated into the shadows to defend Gotham from the the security of his cave. Over the course of the four-issue collection, Superman returned after a tragedy attributable to Magog led to tens of millions of deaths, ideological battle strains had been drawn between Superman- and Batman-led sides of heroes, and an epic showdown between these two sides resulted in much more tragedy, but in addition hope for the longer term.

Waid has written lots of of comics since Kingdom Come‘s release, but that story is still far and away his best-known work. In 1999 Waid returned to the world of that series with the fifth-week event The Kingdom, which picked up in the aftermath of the original series and saw the heroes of the present day interact with their time-travelling future selves. Artist Alex Ross has also returned to the world of Kingdom Come with a prequel story, “Thy Kingdom Come,” told in the pages of writer Geoff Johns and artist Dale Eaglesham‘s Justice Society of America in 2011-12. The world of the original series has also been officially designated Earth-22 as part of DC’s multiverse.

Now Waid is ready to return to Kingdom Come as soon as extra within the pages of Batman/Superman: World’s Finest. The collection, illustrated by Dan Mora and Tamra Bonvillain, is ready up to now of the present DC Universe, and has beforehand launched David Sikela, a younger hero who briefly served as Superman’s sidekick, Boy Thunder. That storyline, which ran in points 7-11 of the collection, ended with David being thrust to Earth-22, and revealed that David would ultimately develop up to turn into Kingdom Come‘s Magog. Next month “Heir to the Kingdom,” the follow-up to the Boy Thunder storyline, begins in Batman/Superman: World’s Finest #20 as Superman, Batman, and Robin head out into the multiverse to strive to rescue Boy Thunder – and discover a world on the point of disaster.

Waid sat down with The Beat to talk about the origins of each Magog and Boy Thunder, returning to the world of his most well-known work, and what the World’s Finest group ought to count on once they arrive on Earth-22.

Joe Grunenwald: Take me again to 1996. When you launched Magog, did you’ve any ideas, exterior of what’s within the textual content, for what his origin was going to be?

Mark Waid: I didn’t. I had no concept. But the Boy Thunder concept, I’ve had that bullet within the chamber for 30 years. The authentic plot for The Kingdom was going to be the Boy Thunder story. I imply, I didn’t have it fleshed out as a lot as I did, and it wasn’t the origin of Magog again then, however I knew I wished to do one thing with a personality like that. And then Dan Mora hit it out of the park. I despatched him the costume, it’s from an outdated World’s Finest, and I mentioned ‘Feel free to make it look contemporary, feel free to do whatever you want with it, it’s simply a place to begin,’ and he simply drew the costume, God bless him.

Grunenwald: So it’s kind of based mostly on the [Nova] costume [from World’s Finest #178]?

Waid: It’s precisely the Nova costume.

Grunenwald: Was it seeing Dan’s drawing that led you to having Boy Thunder turn into Magog, then?

Waid: No, by the point I considered doing the Boy Thunder story in World’s Finest I had the Magog factor in my again pocket. I assumed, ‘That’s a great way to join them, as a result of that method, I can then in a while do a Kingdom Come riff.’

Grunenwald: Was returning to the world of Kingdom Come one thing you’d all the time wished to do?

Waid: Not actually. [World’s Finest] is promoting rather well, which is sweet, however I’m all the time in search of methods to make sure that it retains promoting properly, and that simply appeared like the best way to go. I talked with Alex [Ross] at nice size and he was cool with the whole lot. I advised him I didn’t need to do a sequel, it’s extra of a prequel. We get a glimpse of post-Kingdom Come, however only a glimpse, to kind of justify why Superman’s within the black and pink insignia, after which it’s earlier than then. We return to what’s roughly the identical time period that the World’s Finest e-book is ready in, but it surely’s doppelgangers and Boy Thunder is there, and he’s grown up a little bit bit and there may be some actual stress as a result of he doesn’t actually imagine that Superman seemed for him.

Grunenwald: It’s all the time appeared like there was extra to the connection between Superman and Magog in Kingdom Come. It’s very private between the 2 of them, and now you’ve taken it to a fair deeper stage with the ‘sidekick’ angle.

Waid: Right, and once more that was by no means a part of the plan with Magog ever, however I spotted there was a lot I may do with that character earlier than he grew to become Magog and kind of clarify why he grew to become that type of character.

Grunenwald: As far as your expertise goes, how does it really feel to return to these variations of the characters?

Waid: Oh, it’s nice. It’s a lot enjoyable. I didn’t demand it. DC’s remit for the collection was, ‘Please do a classic version of these characters, and you can use all the toys like the Batcave and the Fortress of Solitude, and not worry about what’s occurring in present continuity.’ If you had to, then, you recognize, Superman’s in house for a 12 months, what do you do?

Grunenwald: Right, you’d be beholden to the whole lot else.

Waid: Right. But Dan Mora is the explanation it doesn’t really feel like a retro e-book. It’s additionally my purpose, I imply, I can not afford to make that really feel like a retro e-book, since you get [typecast], and I don’t need to be that man. So no, it’s a blast. DC’s letting me do just about no matter I would like to do and I’m so grateful for that.

Grunenwald: You talked a little bit bit about the place it falls in relation to the unique Kingdom Come collection timeline-wise. How do you are feeling like what we’re going to see informs what we all know occurs in that collection? What’s the thematic relationship between what’s arising and what comes earlier than?

Waid: The difficult half is that, by that first difficulty, our Superman and Batman know what occurs in Kingdom Come, and now they’re again in that previous, so that they’re struggling to discover a method to steer it away from that, however not inform anyone as a result of they will’t actually reveal the longer term. And it’s a battle, as a result of we all know that occurs. So the trick is, and what the story is admittedly about it, is discovering a way for Superman and Batman to obtain some kind of victory regardless that, on the finish of the day, Kingdom Come nonetheless occurs.

Grunenwald: So it’s a set cut-off date that that occurs.

Waid: Exactly.

Grunenwald: You talked about The Kingdom earlier, so that you’ve been with these characters once more earlier than. How does this really feel completely different to you, or what’s completely different about coming again to them this time versus once you did it with The Kingdom?

Waid: I imply, it’s as a result of we’re doing a prequel. It’s a lot completely different. With every character I’ve to determine the place they’re of their improvement. Is Flash that absolutely developed Speed Force character or is he extra like our outdated Flash? Is Green Lantern Alan Scott or is he Hal Jordan? This is on a case-by-case foundation. The difficult half is making an attempt to work out what suits in that continuity. And then once more, like I mentioned, I’m having plenty of talks with Alex. He doesn’t have veto energy per say, but it surely’s only a courtesy. I felt like speaking to him about these things. And then Gog is a big a part of the story, and [Alex] had some very particular concepts about who Gog is, which is nice. So he gave me rather a lot to feed off of.

Grunenwald: Alex and Geoff Johns did the entire Kingdom Come factor with Gog in Justice Society. Is there any relation between the 2 or is that this its personal separate factor?

Waid: A bit of, not strictly. We’re enjoying with it a little bit bit, but it surely’s related. I’m not making an attempt to justify something that we’re not doing.

Grunenwald: Gotcha. You talked about Green Lantern and The Flash. Are we going to see the state of the bigger DCU on Earth-22?

Waid: Definitely, at the moment, yeah.

Grunenwald: How do you are feeling in regards to the legacy that Kingdom Come has had? It was very a lot a response to what was occurring in comics on the time, after which issues began to react to Kingdom Come. How do you are feeling about that wanting again on it?

Waid: I may by no means have seen it coming. For probably the most half I’m happy. I’m much less happy with individuals deal with it like a prophecy and never like a warning. When individuals say ‘We’re leaning into that future,’ I’m like, ‘No! Don’t try this!’ But it’s good that individuals nonetheless come up to me about it. It’s nonetheless the #1 factor I signal, the #1 factor individuals speak about, apparently it’s going to be on my tombstone. I’m okay with that.

Grunenwald: “Thy Kingdom Come” in your tombstone feels applicable.

Waid: Exactly. There’s worse issues.

Batman/Superman: World’s Finest #20 is due out in shops and digitally on Tuesday, October seventeenth. The ultimate order cutoff date for the problem is that this Sunday, September twenty fourth.