This is the oral history of Anti-Flag

“Machete-ing Our Way Through Failure”

JUSTIN SANE (vocalist-guitarist, Anti-Flag): Every community has an imprint on the art that comes out of it.

CHRIS #2 (vocalist-bassist, Anti-Flag): There was this longing for the golden era of Pittsburgh, the boom of the steel industry. It was the gateway to the west for so long. All of us grew up with that being gone. 

JUSTIN SANE: Pittsburgh wasn’t a progressive place in virtually any approach, aside from labor. Labor history and Pittsburgh go hand in hand. 

CHRIS #2: There was a mill in Monaca, Pennsylvania, about half-hour outdoors of Pittsburgh, the place my aunt and uncle lived, and I’d spend summers with them. My uncle was a janitor. The mill was shut down in the ‘80s, and it had a major effect on their family — he was the breadwinner. Now, with the perspective of age, what was interesting to me was talking to him about the labor movements. There wasn’t a hierarchy. He was a millworker, although he was a janitor. He had this solidarity with the relaxation of the millworkers, which was highly effective. 

PAT THETIC (drummer, Anti-Flag): In the ‘70s, the steel industry in Pittsburgh collapsed. It wasn’t till the medical business got here in throughout the early 2000s that the financial system began to work once more. We grew up in the backside of that earlier than it began to raise itself out. 

JUSTIN SANE: For lots of our associates, a ticket out was to affix the Army. That was it. 

The first Gulf War occurred [in 1990], and all of a sudden, there’s flags in every single place. We’re this group that’s been left behind by our authorities, by society, and now you need us to go abroad and combat, kill and die for oil? We have been sufficiently old to have had a pair associates be part of the navy for an opportunity to get out of city. All of a sudden, they’re over there, and so they don’t wish to be there. That was the place the band identify got here from. Patriotism was being distorted into nationalism. And that was getting used to control folks. 

CHRIS #2: When Pat and Justin began the band, they have been youngsters, and whenever you’re a teen in Pittsburgh, the navy would come to your highschool: “Do you want to see the world? Sign here. Do you want money for college? Sign here.” Thankfully, [Pat and Justin] had the wherewithal to withstand them and say…

PAT THETIC: “We believe playing in a punk-rock band is a better route,” ha ha ha.

JUSTIN SANE: Certainly not economically, definitely not in {our relationships}. But we didn’t die after we have been 18. Growing up the approach we grew up, punk was excellent. I used to be a poor child who didn’t have entry to something, like even a winter coat generally. 

CHRIS #2: He’s the youngest of 9 as a result of they have been Catholic, and that’s what Catholics did again then. They made lots of fuckin’ infants. 

JUSTIN SANE: Even although my mother and father labored actually exhausting, I didn’t wanna hassle my mother and father as a result of I knew they didn’t have lots of cash. I’d go to highschool with this shitty spring jacket and freeze to loss of life. Then there’s this music the place you don’t need to have the newest factor, you don’t need to be into the tendencies. I’ve this shitty drum set I scraped from totally different folks. I’ve this crappy guitar…

CHRIS #2: In 1993, [bassist] Andy [Flag], Justin and Pat began Anti-Flag as we all know it. It takes one other three years to make the first document, Die for the Government. And it takes one other two years earlier than it’s the 4 of us… Head, you noticed Anti-Flag earlier than I did… Did you see them first, or did you play with them first?

CHRIS HEAD (Anti-Flag guitarist): So I labored at Little Caesars, and one of Anti-Flag’s associates, Punk Rock Anne, labored there at the time, and he or she talked me into seeing Anti-Flag. 

JUSTIN SANE: Well, you went to see Fifteen. We have been opening… We have been so disorganized. We didn’t know what we have been doing. We got here to the present, and Fifteen was already taking part in. The promoter was screaming at us. I assumed you went to a present late! We have been like, “Well, can we still play?” 

CHRIS HEAD: We watched Fifteen, I used to be with my girlfriend at the time, and we determined, “We’ll stick around and watch Anti-Flag.” Justin was speaking with this type of British [accent], “Fuck youuu.” My girlfriend was like, “Let’s go.” I used to be like, “I don’t wanna go. This guy is singling out people in the audience!”

PAT THETIC: Head began out taking part in bass; we have been like, “This dude’s cool. We need a bass player…” Then we have been like, “Head, you sort of suck at bass,” and he’s like, “Yeah, I don’t really want to play bass. I want to play guitar.” We’re like, “So I guess we’ll just become a four-piece. You can play guitar, and we can find another bass player…” 

CHRIS #2: In my false confidence state of boxed wine consuming, I used to be like, “Fuck man, I can do better than that!”

[Photo by Alexey Makhov]

PAT THETIC: I didn’t know something about #2. I simply knew that Justin was scheming behind my again to get him in the band. That’s why I used to be kind of grumpy with him: This child’s drunk all the time. He’s only a mess. I gave him the identify #2: He launched himself and stated, “I’m Chris,” and I stated, “We already have one Chris in the band, you’ll be #2.” 

CHRIS #2: I didn’t know they have been straight edge. I imply, they’d songs like “Drink Drank Punk.” I assumed that meant, “We’re punk, and we drink!” I used to be 16 years outdated! 

JUSTIN SANE: When we began the band, I had this persona… it got here from Johnny Rotten… whenever you’re onstage, you wanna be the punkest motherfucker alive. I’d spit on folks. I swore each three phrases. That’s what everybody in the Pittsburgh punk scene did: Who might be extra punk than the subsequent individual? 

TIM MCILRATH (vocalist-guitarist, Rise Against): The scene in Pittsburgh was actually tight knit, organized, DIY, all people in it collectively. It appeared like they’d much less of the tribalism that some of the greater cities have.

CHRIS #2: Talking about Pittsburgh, there have been no references. No one had ever made it. It wasn’t like residing in New York or LA the place you possibly can say, “Oh, here’s this band. This was the path they took. It might be a little overgrown, but you can still see through it. Let’s follow it.” We have been actually machete-ing our approach by way of failure. 

JUSTIN SANE: As [Chris Head and Chris #2] got here into the band, that drive simply continued. The drive to do it — there was nothing else in our lives. Pat slept on any individual’s basement flooring, I used to be at my mother and father’ home. We did no matter we needed to do for the band to maintain creating.

“When Power Structures Start to Fear Artists…” 

CHRIS #2: In Pittsburgh, the band was beginning to play to extra folks. Seven hundred, generally 1,000 folks would come to the native reveals. It commanded our consideration and respect. We by no means took [the shows] as a right. We at all times noticed them as alternatives to develop the group round the band, the ideology and the politics. All 4 of us at that second in 1998 collectively determined, “OK, doors are starting to open. Let’s walk through them with confidence.”

JUSTIN SANE: We have been like, “Fuck, I want to have a band of friends and drive around the country.” 

SHANE TOLD (vocalist, Silverstein): I noticed Anti-Flag play proper after Chris #2 joined. I keep in mind this vivid second at the Toronto Opera House, this absolute establishment of a venue. I’m 17 at the time, and Chris was a couple of 12 months older than me, up there on tour, taking part in an 800-cap venue. They had some sort of run-in with the police that day, and I keep in mind Justin going into this speech about what occurred and the cops and the way fucked up it was, and all of a sudden, it’s like, “This song’s called ‘Fuck Police Brutality’!” Up to that time, I’d by no means seen such a visceral dwell second with a lot emotion behind it. There was such unity amongst the crowd. Everyone was there for the similar cause. 

CHRIS #2: We did a U.S. tour with the Dropkick Murphys in the spring of 1999. They had a foot in the skinhead, pro-American… virtually a working-class sort of solidarity, however nonetheless primarily based in a bit of nationalism…  

PAT THETIC: Dropkick followers tended to be individuals who have been extra aggressive than the individuals who have been fascinated about Anti-Flag. It was a risky combine.

CHRIS #2: We would have a present in Denver that was actually constructive. We drive south to Oklahoma City, and Anti-Flag’s getting beer bottled the total present. It’s a very painful, arduous tour, about 5 weeks lengthy. We get to Texas the final week, and the present is only a nightmare. These males [in the crowd] would search for anybody in an Anti-Flag shirt, seize them and punch them. It’s taking place throughout the present, and we don’t play if there’s a combat. We’re stopping each two seconds. We’re making an attempt to get safety to throw them out, however we’re in Texas, so the safety sees us like, “Fuck you!” We get off the stage, and Pat says one thing like, “Fuck this, these people are idiots.” The Dropkick Murphys hear that, they suppose we’re insulting their followers, they get indignant with us. We sort of squashed that beef, however the subsequent day, we present up, and so they’ve hung an American flag as the backdrop — proper facet up — ask us to play our present in entrance of it, and we refuse. We bailed on the tour. It was financially crippling. 

On that drive residence, not solely are we broke, not solely are we tail between our legs as a result of the bullies beat us up… We used to tour in a U-Haul field truck with six bunks in-built. Justin will get carbon monoxide poisoning in the truck as a result of there’s a leak going proper into his bunk. He’s in the hospital practically useless, and Rage Against the Machine calls us and asks us to go on tour and adjustments our life without end. 

JUSTIN SANE: Tom Morello took a liking to us. 

TOM MORELLO (guitarist, Rage Against the Machine): I used to be acquainted with their music and beloved their uncompromising, fiery punk politics. That was all nicely and good. The drawback was you couldn’t discover Anti-Flag. There was no telephone quantity. I checked out each cassette and album, phone book and white pages in Pittsburgh… At some level, by way of some circuitous route, I used to be in a position to contact them. 

[Photo by Jen Palmer]

CHRIS #2: When we’re lastly in a position to get Justin out of the hospital and get again onstage, the first present with Rage Against the Machine is in Philadelphia. It’s protested by the Philadelphia Police Department as a result of Rage Against the Machine supported Mumia Abu-Jamal, a political prisoner Anti-Flag had executed activist actions for. 

JUSTIN SANE: It was simply throughout the state in Philly, so we have been conscious of it.

CHRIS #2: But our activist actions have been in a membership with 200 folks. And their activist motion was in an enviornment. We’re in the resort earlier than the present, all 4 of us in a single room, and on the tv is the chief of police saying, “Don’t let your kids go to this show. Rage Against the Machine support a cop-killer, Mumia Abu-Jamal.” We have a look at one another like, “A band has disrupted so far that they’re going to the local news? We’ve got a lot of work to do.” 

JUSTIN SANE: That present was at the Philadelphia Spectrum. I’d by no means been to an enviornment live performance. My first enviornment live performance was taking part in an enviornment live performance. You pull up, and the cops have police vehicles circled, surrounding the enviornment. 

CHRIS #2: They have been protesting the present. They needed to open up the line to allow us to in. We confirmed up in the similar field truck that nearly killed Justin every week prior.

I keep in mind tuning my bass guitar, and I flip round — my tuner’s on the flooring dealing with the again of the stage — and the nook of the enviornment is offered out. There’s extra folks watching my again than I’ve ever performed to earlier than. 

TOM MORELLO: That evening, I keep in mind there was a very fiery speech onstage…

CHRIS #2: Zack de la Rocha had a genius line that was one thing like, “They say we support a cop-killer. We don’t support any killers. Especially killer cops.” And then growth, they go right into a tune like “Killing in the Name.” Like fuck me, man, that’s it. There was a lot explaining we needed to do with our reveals as a result of we have been actually adamant that everybody understood what we have been making an attempt to say. And to see a band that had a lot confidence, they solely spoke when it was really needed… 

PAT THETIC: When energy constructions begin to worry artists, that’s a superb factor.

TOM MORELLO: Two issues struck me after I obtained to look at them carry out on a nightly foundation. One was how skinny and black their garments have been. And two was their intense, genuine dedication to altering the world by way of a two-and-a-half minute tune. 

CHRIS #2: Later on, Tom [Morello] was like, “Don’t chase. If you hear a song and want to write something that sounds like that, you’re already too late.” So, the reference turned simply be true to your self, and that can resonate. Thankfully he instructed us that as a result of in a while after we have been signing to larger document labels and making greater choices, it’s very straightforward for bands to go searching and say, “Well, they’re having success, and I’m gonna follow that.”

FAT MIKE (vocalist-bassist, NOFX; founder, Fat Wreck Chords): I heard that tune “Gonna die, gonna die, gonna die for the government,” and I preferred it… I feel I attempted to steal them from [their label] New Red Archives. 

CHRIS #2: Fat Mike turned conscious of Anti-Flag as a result of of Pete [Steinkopf] from the Bouncing Souls, I consider. 

JUSTIN SANE: Fat Mike known as, and he was like, “Have you thought about your next record?” I used to be like, “Yeah, we’ve been recording it ourselves. We’re not sure how we’re gonna release it.” And he was like, “Well, I wanna put it out.” Which I assumed was nice as a result of all people saved saying Fat Wreck Chords was an excellent document label, that it might open lots of doorways, we’d have full management over what we have been doing, that distribution would enhance dramatically from the place we have been. We have been already recording in our residence studio…

PAT THETIC: By “home studio,” you imply a man’s deserted home…

CHRIS #2: A New Kind of Army, the second Anti-Flag document, was recorded in 4 or 5 locations, any area we might discover that had sufficient room to set some microphones up: We recorded in Justin’s… we known as it The Shack. It was above his mother and father’ storage. There was additionally an empty warehouse that we discovered and an individual’s home that they have been but to maneuver into.

JUSTIN SANE: I might inform Fat Mike was upset we had already began to make the document. He by no means stated this, however trying again from what I do know now, I’m positive he needed us to go to San Francisco, document in a superb studio there, and he would most likely produce it. He had cultivated a sound on Fat Wreck Chords the place the bands sounded actually skilled. I’m positive he was considering, “This band needs work.” 

[Photo by Alexey Makhov]

FAT MIKE: Well, it’s not so good as their first album. I feel that’s widespread perception. 

JUSTIN SANE: We despatched him our document, and he was like, “It’s not clean enough for Fat Wreck Chords. I have a subsidiary record label I would like to put it out on.” On Fat, there have been bands we might establish with, like Swingin’ Utters, Good Riddance, Propagandhi. These bands had a social message. The subsidiary was known as Honest Don’s, and it had extra of a joke taste to it. When we stated no, we fully blew Mike’s thoughts as a result of he supplied 60 or 80 grand for the document. At the time, that was simply an astronomical quantity of cash. I imply, bands at present aren’t getting $80,000 to make a document. 

The irony of the entire factor is we signed with Mike for the subsequent document, which he agreed to place out on Fat, however A New Kind of Army offered 100,000 information a lot quicker than the document we put out on Fat [2001’s Underground Network]. Even Mike later was like, “Wow, I really fucked up on that one.” 

FAT MIKE: They gave me Underground Network, which is a tremendous album. So is [2003’s] Terror State. I feel I obtained them at the proper time.

“To Be in a Band Called Anti-Flag on Sept. 12 Was a Hard Thing to Do”

CHRIS #2: There ain’t no warfare with out warriors, you realize? If you may create the solidarity actions, these rallying cries enable folks to really feel empowered.

JUSTIN SANE: We had lots of associates in New York. Head’s dad was standing proper in entrance of the second tower when it obtained hit. 

PAT THETIC: Head’s father was going to a gathering… Head needed to go decide him up.

CHRIS #2: Head’s mother and father instructed him to inform us to vary the band’s identify…

CHRIS HEAD: I imply, they weren’t the solely ones. I had cousins, all types of folks calling me: “Time for you to rethink that.”

CHRIS #2: To be in a band known as Anti-Flag on Sept. 12 was a tough factor to do.

JUSTIN SANE: 9/11 was a horrible tragedy. Not simply as Americans — however as human beings — we reacted to it, and it was horrible. But instantly, we had considerations with what the Bush administration was going to do in the aftermath of 9/11. The thought that you just’re going to invade a whole nation as a result of of one unhealthy man there, that smelled of imperialism, after which George W. Bush gave his “Axis of Evil” speech the place he was speaking about North Korea, Iraq, Iran… He’s doing what each imperialist politician has executed all through history: utilizing a tragedy, and turning it into a possibility to complement himself and his associates. 

CHRIS #2: That second of “Oh fuck, what do we do?” was three days lengthy. We have been again in the studio, and we wrote a tune known as “911 For Peace.” 

JUSTIN SANE: We had been in the studio for a number of days, after which 9/11 occurred. 

CHRIS #2: So we took a number of days off, after which Justin got here in and stated, “I have this song.” We learn the “911 For Peace” lyrics, we talked about them, after which the 4 of us stated, “When people ask where Anti-Flag stands, now we have this piece of art to present and say, ‘We’re on the side of people; we’re not on the side of the gun. We don’t believe dropping bombs on people’s heads is the solution to this problem.’” 

JUSTIN SANE: We have been actually on a fuckin’ island. Even my very own mom, who was the greatest peace advocate I ever knew, I feel for about three months she was completely on board, like, “Yeah, let’s go.” But after I noticed that, I spotted the quantity of worry 9/11 had created in folks. My mom was scared. You might see it on her face. I spotted, “Wow, we’re really gonna be alone on this.” But as a band, there was by no means any query. 

CHRIS #2: People have been ready for readability. And that’s OK. It was an unprecedented second, and it took time. 

JUSTIN SANE: We didn’t return on tour [in 2001]…

PAT THETIC: But we did e-book our personal present. We stated, “What can we control?” So we booked our personal present [at Mr. Roboto Project, a Pittsburgh-area DIY venue] and put 500 folks in a room. 

CHRIS #2: That was our first efficiency in a post-9/11 world [on Dec. 1, 2001].

JUSTIN SANE: And our damaged gun brand, which we name the Gunstar, got here out of that. We printed shirts for the present and we gave all people a shirt, so all people wore the similar shirt. The reality there have been folks in our group saying, “Yeah, we’re still with you guys” — that was actually particular. 

CHRIS #2: [In] February 2002, we did the Mobilize for Peace tour, bringing out peace activists and warfare resistors to come back converse onstage with us. 

JUSTIN SANE: People confirmed up saying, “I have been afraid to say how I feel, and the fact you guys are here is giving me a space to do that.” It was nonetheless a time whenever you couldn’t query what the Bush administration was doing. 

PAT THETIC: The reveals have been superior. But attending to the reveals…

CHRIS #2: In Florida on the Mobilize tour, the bouncers have been flipping us off whereas we have been taking part in, and we needed to get a police escort out of the present as a result of it had erupted right into a bit of a mob. 

PAT THETIC: The reveals in New York have been lots of union reveals, so you’ve got these outdated union guys who’re socially conservative, don’t wish to hear about your upside-down American flag, you speaking about the U.S. navy being a terrorist group. Loading in, I keep in mind them throwing our gear round, simply being fucking dicks. We’re not fighters, and we’re not large folks… But activism is not speculated to be nice. It’s speculated to be uncomfortable. 

CHRIS #2: We did the 2002 Warped Tour as nicely, and West Palm Beach was a very unhealthy present. In retribution for [the Florida show on the Mobilize tour], children got here throughout our set, walked to the entrance of the stage, pointed at us, put mouthguards in, and began punching all people. An enormous brawl broke out, and we simply stated into the microphone, “We’re not going to play a note of music until you’re gone.” Your set at Warped Tour is half-hour lengthy, and it took about 20 minutes for the relaxation of the crowd to see who they have been. They turned on them, circled them, and we have been in a position to get them out. And then we had a triumphant eight-minute-long set.

[Photo by Jen Palmer]

JUSTIN BIVONA (bassist, the Interrupters): In the wake of 9/11, whenever you’re a 12-, 13-year-old child, considering, “What is going on?” and then you definately discover a band explaining what’s occurring in the world, it’s eye-opening. 

STACEY DEE (vocalist-guitarist, Bad Cop/Bad Cop): I keep in mind Justin’s mohawk and Chris leaping off shit. They simply seemed shiny, and the crowds have been large, and so they have been going off. I don’t suppose I’ve ever seen Anti-Flag play to a crowd that didn’t go off for them.

TOM MORELLO: The Rock Against Bush tour in 2004… In addition to being the rock guitarist of Rage Against the Machine and Audioslave, I’ve a profession as an acoustic troubadour underneath the moniker the Nightwatchman — and [Anti-Flag] took me out on tour. I used to be supplied that 12 months to tour on the Vote for Change tour — it was [artists like] Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young, Pearl Jam, Bright Eyes — they have been doing a Democratic politics enviornment tour to get out the vote, and so they requested me to play, and I stated, “I would love to do it, but I think you should have a band like Anti-Flag on that tour.” And they have been considerably reticent — I’m not gonna converse for anyone in any of these camps — however as a result of the optics of a band known as Anti-Flag could have turned off some crimson state voters with out ever listening to the band’s music.

So I opted not to do this tour, and [Anti-Flag and I] determined to do one thing of our personal. Fat Mike or any individual obtained us a tour bus, and we rolled throughout the nation in a tour bus that stated ROCK AGAINST BUSH on it. We have been egged in Florida… It was nice. I’m going out, taking part in to audiences of 15- and 16-year olds, the shredding guitarist from Rage Against the Machine who’s gonna play his people music earlier than Anti-Flag tears the roof off the joint.

JESSE BIVONA (drummer, the Interrupters): They name themselves Anti-Flag, however their message was anti-establishment, anti-empire. Power to the folks. Open your eyes to what’s occurring in the world. Scream about it.

“The Rock ’n’ Roll Swindle” 

CHRIS #2: With the cyclical nature of music, punk was coming again. That was plain for everyone to see. 

PAT THETIC: When Green Day’s American Idiot got here out [in 2004], we have been like, “Thank God somebody’s able to bring these ideas to the mainstream.” Which is fairly wonderful as a result of American radio is about promoting beer. 

TIM MCILRATH: We had fun teasing one another as a result of everybody was signing. That tour was us, Against Me! and Anti-Flag, and ultimately all three of these bands signed to majors.

CHRIS #2: I keep in mind in New York City, [Rise Against’s A&R] man being there and the 4 of us being like, “Ooh, you got a sleazy record label guy here!” It was humorous to us as a result of they’d come round. I keep in mind in D.C., in 2000, a man who labored at a significant label gave us his card, and he stated one thing snooty like, “If you boys ever wanna take this serious, give me a call!” And then we have been like, “Shove this up your ass.” So we had by no means taken it severe till our relationship with Tom [Morello] led us to having a relationship with Rick Rubin. Rick Rubin known as in early 2003. 

TIM MCILRATH: I keep in mind I used to be at the Los Angeles Warped Tour, and I noticed #2, Justin and Rick Rubin strolling collectively behind one of the levels. What is taking place proper now? Rick Rubin cruisin’ round with Anti-Flag! 

CHRIS #2: He stated, “I loved the show. I want to sign your band. There’s gonna be a bunch of people who come in behind me who offer you whatever, but if you wanna make a record with me, I’m here. See you later.” And then, like magic, a automotive appeared, he obtained in and drove away. 

CHRIS #2: Everybody tried to have some sort of reference to us. Clive Davis’ was, “I worked with these activist musicians. Let’s talk about Bob Dylan.” It’s very flattering when somebody needs to say you in the similar dialog as Bob Dylan. He additionally had an enormous mobster desk, like 6 ft between you and him, whereas Jimmy Iovine’s workplace was supremely Los Angeles. The home windows have been open, and there have been crops in every single place. You used a magic e-book to get in. Jimmy talked to us about his interactions with punk, his interactions with activists, which have been largely simply tales about Bono. He says, “Actually, I have the new U2. Would you like to hear it?” He places on “Uno, dos, tres, catorce,” you realize, that U2 tune [“Vertigo”] at an insane quantity. As that tune is elevating into its first triumphant refrain, Pat raises his hand and says, “Can you turn it down?” 

JUSTIN SANE: You might simply see the look on Jimmy’s face, like, “Wait, what?”

PAT THETIC: “I’m gonna be one of the people, man! These are the punk rockers. I gotta listen to it really loud!” 

CHRIS #2: I can get into the weeds of the rock ’n’ roll swindle with Rick, if you need this story… Essentially, they gave us the pen to put in writing our personal contract… We be sure that there’s cash so we may give to activist communities. We be sure that it’s a two-album deal and never some insane multi-multi-multi-album deal. We needed well being care, which is one thing we by no means had earlier than. Ultimately, we flip on this insane contract. 

JUSTIN SANE: When all of it got here to a head, Rick tells us, “I won’t allow you to sign this deal.” 

CHRIS #2: Essentially, he was making an attempt to guard us from being so in debt from minute one which they’re not gonna give [the band] a shot: “If you guys sign this contract, you guys have to sell a million copies, or else it’s a failure.” 

We circled and went to the different label, RCA, and stated, “If you can beat this contract, we’ll pick you over Rick Rubin.” This was a bit of a white lie as a result of Rick wasn’t gonna signal the contract, however we used it as a negotiation tactic, and it labored. 

FAT MIKE: They obtained a really giant advance, and it was assured for his or her second document, too… So they may not get dropped… When I heard that, I used to be like, “Take it. I can’t give you that kind of money. And if it doesn’t do well, then you can leave.”

CHRIS #2: We put out two albums on RCA, and we washed our arms of it. We didn’t care [about Rick Rubin’s inhibitions] as a result of our contract was sick, and we obtained to go residence at the finish of this experiment.

PAT THETIC: The studio we document our music in at present… that major-label contract allowed us to [pay for] that.

SHANE TOLD: It’s humorous that the major-label album is my favourite… [2006’s] For Blood and Empire, that album was a fuckin’ game-changer. One of the coolest issues they ever did was signal to a significant label and get their music out to a wider viewers whereas nonetheless controlling what they needed to do as a band. 

CHRIS #2: For Blood and Empire and [2008’s] The Bright Lights of America, every document took three months to make. They price exorbitant quantities of cash. They have been painstakingly excellent, to the level the place we have been chopping up bits, taking part in and taking part in until our fingers fucking bled. 

PAT THETIC: We knew we have been a punk band. We knew we have been going to be a punk band it doesn’t matter what occurred with this. 

[Photo via Anti-Flag]

“The Band and Their Message”

CHRIS #2: I feel the darkest period of Anti-Flag is the finish of 2008 till 2015. In these seven years, we did lots of issues I feel are necessary, and we wrote lots of good songs, however I don’t suppose we made an excellent album. I feel all of us suffered emotional, bodily stresses that have been the outcome of being on the highway so intensely from 2003 to 2008. I feel all of us fell out of love with the band as a result of the band had taken issues from us emotionally that we thought have been fairly stable. The band turned a job in these seven years. And that’s by no means an excellent place to create your artwork from. 

CHRIS #2: There have been lots of particular moments that occurred in these years, however I don’t look again on these information and say…

JUSTIN SANE: It’s not our greatest stuff.

CHRIS #2: Both Pat and I had relationships that ended throughout that point. Head and Justin did as nicely. When persons are grieving… gosh, I imply, earlier than Bright Lights of America, my sister was killed. I didn’t grieve that correctly as a result of we gotta work! 

JUSTIN SANE: If you’ve got a four-person unit and two of these folks instantly grow to be very unstable, it is actually exhausting to make a stable plan. I didn’t undergo the relationship disintegration that [Chris #2] and Pat did — mainly a lifelong associate going away — however I used to be fully burnt out. 

CHRIS #2: Pat needed to give up the band in 2009. I needed to give up the band in 2011.

JUSTIN SANE: It wasn’t a enjoyable place to be. It actually did really feel like grinding by way of it. There have been good occasions — most likely the finest occasions have been after we have been taking part in. 

PAT THETIC: You have these beliefs. You discuss in interviews about the mission of the band. It’s actual to us, however it’s not the grit. And then we go to a spot like Ukraine [to perform in 2014]. We’re at all times speaking to promoters, so we’re like, “What are the battles you guys are fighting?” They’re like, “We love your band. We love what you’re about. We’d love to have you come back and play this show again, if we exist and if I’m still alive.” And you notice there are tanks and bombs and other people making an attempt to kill these folks a pair miles away.

That is an actual expression of identification: “I am here, this is who I am, and someone wants to destroy me as a human being.” It had a huge effect on us.

CHRIS #2: We have been getting from week to week, or tour to tour. And that’s not after we’re at our greatest. We’re at our greatest after we say, “This is our goal. How do we achieve it?” I don’t suppose we affirmed that once more till 2015, after we made American Spring. Talk a couple of band betting on themselves. We went to LA, purchased each flight, spent each dime to make the album, and at the finish of it we held it up and stated, “Who cares enough about this band to put this album out?”

JUSTIN SANE: Songs that we’ve written in the final 10 years, the final 5 years, are some of our greatest songs. 

SHANE TOLD: American Fall was their new album [in 2017] after we went on tour with them. Watching the tune “American Attraction” each evening simply explode, it was like, “OK, people aren’t here just to see ‘This Is the End’ or ‘Die for the Government.’ They’re here to see Anti-Flag. They’re here to see the band and their message.”

CHRIS #2: We have so many punk-rock contemporaries from the early ‘90s, and we play shows with them, watch their set, and they’ll possibly play the most present tune, being from 2006. And 50%, 60% of our set is songs from 2015 to 2022… I imply, simply have a look at the new album — it has eight company on it, which is the first time we’ve ever executed that. 2023 is the thirtieth anniversary of the band. Most bands once they hit 30 years, they’re doing a 30-year anniversary tour, and that’s it. 

FAT MIKE: In debate class, I used to be instructed that whoever begins yelling the loudest is dropping the argument. I at all times felt onstage for those who simply stated the similar issues, you get simply as a lot executed. But I perceive. They wish to yell. #2’s mother most likely yelled at him lots — TAKE OUT THE GARBAGE! — and it obtained ingrained in him: HERE’S OUR NEW SONG! THIS SONG’S ABOUT SMALL WARS THAT ARE INSIGNIFICANT, BUT WE’RE STILL GONNA SING ABOUT THEM!

STACEY DEE: The reality is, they need the finest for humanity and the planet and animals, and so they need the finest for this actuality that all of us reside in. They actually, actually do.

PAT THETIC: I’ve listened to leftist political philosophy all day lengthy. And all of it comes all the way down to do not be an asshole.

TIM MCILRATH: If there have been critics of what they do, it might at all times be how in-your-face they have been and the way direct their lyrics have been. You would hear any individual say, “Oh, it’s Anti-Flag, and they’re gonna play ‘Fuck Police Brutality.’ What an obvious statement.” But I’ve been alive lengthy sufficient the place it’s like, “Wait, there’s not enough people saying ‘fuck police brutality.’”

CHRIS #2: When we began, we have been like, “That cop was a dick to Justin at the show,” so we wrote “Fuck Police Brutality.” And now you go to [this year’s] Lies They Tell Our Children, and we’re a band that’s traveled the world. We’ve obtained relationships in all these locations. We’ve seen common well being care and common schooling. We wish to advocate for these issues inside our music. One of the questions we get requested lots is, “You’ve written songs about these things so many times. Aren’t you sick of it?” And it’s like, “No, because every moment feels like a possibility to alleviate suffering.”

In our workplace, now we have a framed letter of an individual who had signed up for the navy and was being requested to go however crammed out the kinds correctly as a result of they obtained the info from a desk at an Anti-Flag present. And they have been in a position to get their registry into the U.S. navy revoked. I’m like, “That’s it. We won. There’s no greater reason for us to be a band than this piece of paper right here.”